Fan Designed Cosmic Expansion Set Discussion

Peter Olotka: Bill has synthesized yesterday's Joker development comments. Weigh in!

Zachery Gaskins: I don't think there's a need to specify what happens on either defense or offense since in a normal encounter, both players reveal simultaneously.

Zachery Gaskins: Unless there is explicit intent for the Joker to have to “guess” on offense and not on defense, which imho seems like more complication than is necessary. The power needs to be kept as pithy as possible :) (1 thumb up)

Zachery Gaskins: (Oh, and I need to lookup all of the Flare effects to see what else might interfere/get involved with this mechanic.)

Peter Olotka: What's the closest power to this? Or is there one?

Zachery Gaskins: Here's a CosmicTropes rundown (lol):
   Like Pacifist/Reserve, it gets AlternateUsesForCards...
   Like Clone/Filch/Vulch, it can DumpsterDive...
   Like Void, it has PermanentRemoval. (3 thumbs up)

Zachery Gaskins: ((Is it just the programmer in me, Bill Eberle, or do those look like great names for Java class method interfaces? *strokes stubble*)) (1 thumb up)

Zachery Gaskins: Oh, and like Oracle/Gambler, it KnowsWhatYouPlayed. (1 thumb up)

Jack Reda: I wonder about Cosmic Zapping Joker. If the use is on the reveal, then Joker knows what his opponent has revealed. That gives him an unfair advantage if he'd be forced to then play an encounter card. I think after cards are played, Joker needs to use his power, revealing his non-encounter card and then selecting the discard. Of course, the real question is effects like Sorcerer. Timing rules?

Zachery Gaskins: Timing dispute would be no differently handled than say when Oracle meets Mirror or any other after-play-before-reveal card changer. Timing rule would apply.

But I do see your point for Sorc specifically because what would happen if Sorc was allowed to “play” the Artifact?

What do we think about letting Joker be able to replace the Artifact no matter who played it - the pithy rule being that when the Artifact is revealed, Joker replaces it wherever it went?

Zachery Gaskins: The other possibility is that Joker must always reveal first (regardless of other powers in play) and choose his encounter card without knowledge of the opponent's play? Does this nerf him too much? (1 thumb up)

Jack Reda: Most players have no knowledge of what their opponent is playing.

Zachery Gaskins: Heh, I know *that* :) It was a question of whether to remove Joker's original ability to see what his opponent played since the reveal is simultaneous - but it seems like from the most recent rework, there's the feeling that we want Joker to reveal first and therefore have to “guess” like everyone else. I guess this compensates for his ability to 1) bury artifacts and 2) annihilate encounter cards.

As much as I might expect to see conflict with other powers (Flares still to be reviewed), Joker being forced to reveal first doesn't seem to be an issue. The only weirdness about it is that he doesn't have to reveal his power until AFTER he's put down his Artifact - the opponent does not get to know that he has done so until after cards have been selected.

Zachery Gaskins: (Whereas usually a power use is announced before any aberrant behavior can be performed.)
To keep things simple, I wouldn't count an Artifact in Joker's hand as a valid encounter card either - he has to draw a new hand / pass his turn like everyone else.

Jefferson Krogh: I don't see the need for specifying who reveals first, for this power. For the Cosmic Zap problem, either have Joker lose automatically, or let his opponent choose which encounter card in the discards he has to use. Probably auto-lose makes more sense.

I need more coffee.

Jack Reda: I would suggest that Joker plays a non-encounter card face up, as the USE portion of his power during planning and then picks up the discard pile to secretly select an encounter card to play face down. The non-encounter card is never considered an encounter card at any point. If he is zapped, he simply has to play an encounter card from hand normally. (1 thumb up)

Zachery Gaskins: Perhaps the playing of the artifact (use of the power) causes him to temporarily take the discard pile into his hand.

Jefferson Krogh: Too much chance for total confusion if you have Joker pick up the discards, I think.

As usual, Jack has an eminently logical suggestion. This changes Joker from “auto-win” to “incredibly flexible.” This justifies letting him use any non-encounter card as a wild card, I think.

This also suggests some neat Flare ideas: Pick an opponent, force him to discard a non-encounter card of his choice. Then give him an encounter card of your choice from the discard pile.

Zachery Gaskins: @Jefferson Krogh: That would make a great Wild. As for the Super, I like the idea of allowing Joker to take the used Encounter card into his hand instead of disposing of it.